Final Interview Project

 

ERH-303WX

Date Due: 12/13/16

Date Sub.: 12/13/16

Help Received: Cited Sources, peer review, professor

Matthew Kenkel

 

For my interview project, I interviewed my grandfather on my mother’s side, who grew up in Appalachia. Specifically, he grew up in Independence, Virginia, which falls close to the eastern boundary of Appalachia in Virginia. He shared with me his experience of growing up in Appalachia between the years of 1935 and 1954. Most of the experiences that we discussed were things I had never before discussed with my grandfather. Through that interview, I was able to come to understand several things about Appalachia and its culture. I discovered that stereotype deflecting is real, language is something that Appalachians notice, and Appalachian identity is relative.

The whole idea of stereotype deflecting surrounds a concept brought up by Anne Shelby in The “R” Word. She discusses how the “real hillbillies” are hard to find. Shelby points out that if asked, some Appalachians respond by say something to the effect that the hillbillies are, “over the hill somewhere, or on up the holler, one county over and one class down” (Shelby 154). I had a similar experience during the course of my interview. I had asked my grandfather if he had ever experienced the stereotyping of Appalachians, be it in the media or in person. He responded by saying, “this didn’t come into play until, you know, later on much more years later after I left Independence that I even heard about that. But, I don’t think that it involved…, but if it did it was more of the outskirts of Independence.” I found this answer very interesting, because although my grandfather stated that he himself had never come across negative stereotypes of Appalachians growing up, such portrayals did come into play once he left his Appalachian town of Independence. Then, on the outside of Appalachia, the portrayals of Appalachians as being poor came into play. Using Shelby’s concept, my grandfather deflected the “poor” stereotype by saying that his town wasn’t poor, it was the areas just outside of Independence that were the places being portrayed as poor. This came up a second time when I was asking about misconceptions he thinks people could hold about where he grew up. He said, “Well they possibly could, you know things that come up but I don’t like to say it had to be the outskirts, but still the address is in Independence because it reached pretty far out, but not the town of Independence”. Again, he deflected, although with hesitation, the misconception about his town to the “outskirts”.

One of the questions I added to my interview protocol had to do with language and dialect. I asked, “Would you say that there’s anything unique about the language you speak, we all speak English, but different areas of the country have slight accents?” I wanted to see how an Appalachian would identify their own language, the way they speak, and the reactions they garner from it. My grandfather pointed out that he did indeed notice that his language was different, but only once he actually left his hometown. He did not bring up the fact that he received any negative reactions or discrimination because of his language. However, he did point out that outside of Independence he would get reactions to the way he spoke like, “where are you from?” The most striking response from this question was when my grandfather said, “I haven’t been able to change some of it.” This, to me, implied that he was bothered by the fact that he could not change some of his language and took notice to it. Hearing that pointed out to me that at some point, my grandfather took notice to and decided that he would rather conform his language to his surroundings than keep it. This represents the dialect “interference” that Jeffery Reaser brings up in Dialect and Education in Appalachia (Reaser 95). Also, the fact that this happened after he had left Independence and began to assimilate into a bigger city (Roanoke, Va) further points to the fact that he could have received interference from the surrounding population, possibly when he was completing his business diploma. He received the education for his diploma outside his hometown and in the city of Roanoke. It is possible that it was in the education system in Roanoke that he was subject to, “interference in formal education contexts in the realms of speaking, listening, reading, and writing” even if he did not notice it (Reaser 95).

Finally, I discovered the importance of context and identity. What I mean by context and identity in regards to Appalachia is that many Appalachians do not know that they are part of any larger “Appalachian” identity until they leave Appalachia. I was surprised to hear my grandfather say, “I never thought of myself as being Appalachian so to speak, I never heard the word when I was there…all the time I was there I never thought about it being any different from any other place.” Also, when describing Independence, Virginia, my grandfather pointed out that, “It’s very far back, it was very far back. I understand that now, I didn’t even really think about that part when I was growing up but it’s very far back in southwestern Virginia.”  So, it took him having to leave Independence to hear the word Appalachia and understand that his hometown in context, relative to other places is considered, “far back”.

Overall, it was refreshing to sit down and hear the perspective of an Appalachian, especially someone who grew up in Appalachia between 1935 and 1954, when the War on Poverty was beginning to gear up. At first, I was hesitant to interview my grandfather because of the biases that come with interviewing family members. But, I believe it turned out well because through the course of the stories and answers I heard through the interview, I found ‘cultural artifacts’ that are related to topics that have intrigued me this past semester, such as stereotyping, language, and identity.

Works Cited

Anne Shelby. “The “r” Word.” Back Talk from Appalachia: Confronting Stereotypes, Edited by Dwight B. Billings et al., University Press of Kentucky, 1999, pp. 153–160.

Reaser, Jeffrey. “Dialect and Education in Appalachia.” Talking Appalachian: Voice, Identity, and Community, Edited by Amy D. Clark and Nancy M. Hayward, University Press of Kentucky, 2013, pp. 94–109,

Interview Transcript

Matt: Specifically where did you grow up?

Jake: I grew up in Independence, the town of Independence

Matt: Ok

Jake: And I think in that time the population was, I heard it was like 700

Matt: 700?

Jake: Yea

Matt:  And so did you, you grow up in a house there, how many siblings did you have?

Jake: I had no siblings at all, I was an only child and I grew up there in Independence and went to Independence high school.

Matt: Ok

Jake: As well as elementary school and high school, were all in one building at that time, anyway, I attended. See I was born in 1935 in the town of Galax which had the hospital there. I was born there and I graduated from high school in 1954 from Independence high school.

Matt: So, you said the population was 700?

Jake: That’s what I understood, I think.

Matt: What was the closest city to Independence that was maybe bigger?

Jake: Galax, it was bigger

Matt: And that’s where you were born?

Jake: Yea in the hospital there, Independence did not have a hospital and Galax is about 18 miles north, I guess you could say of Independence.

Matt: Ok, when you were growing up what did you identify yourself as or if someone asked you to identify yourself as Appalachian, Virginian, or some specific thing?

Jake: I never thought of myself as being an Appalachian so to speak, I never heard the word when I was there. And, but I left there in ’54 to come to Roanoke to, I got a business diploma here in Roanoke, but all the time I was there I never thought about it being any different from any other place. I guess it’s just according to what part of Appalachia you lived in. I never thought of anybody being really poor there and it seem that economically that most people were, you know, pretty close to the same as to where I lived. Now out in the country surrounding there, there could be a lot different and a lot of places had the addresses in Independence even if it was far and reached you know, far out a number of miles it still had that Independence address

Matt: So you think that growing up in Independence, like if you compared growing up in Independence maybe to the people that grew up in Galax or maybe other big cities do you think they had it easier growing up, or was it about the same?

Jake: I think it was about the same. The only places around there was Independence and there was Wytheville which is like 30 miles from Independence, 30 miles going north doing a different way of getting to there, but yea if we did any shopping, much shopping so to speak, we would come to Roanoke my mother would come to Roanoke along with friends, whatever, on a shopping spree, you know. But mostly there were farmers, lawyers, doctors, and teachers, and that sort of thing. In fact, my mother was a teacher to begin with before she married my father and he was in the restaurant business and he had that at the time of his death. He died an early death and like he was 32 years old, but anyway after that my mother decided that rather than continue being a teacher she would take on the restaurant business which also had a bus station there, a greyhound bus station stop that she would sell tickets for and that sort of thing. And she was right across the street from the courthouse, which you saw the picture of the courthouse, I believe. It was always big days when they had court there cause a lot of lawyers would come in from out of town and have court and she would have a lot of people in the restaurant on those days and she’d also, that Grayson county was election or vote over that, whether the county seat would be in Independence or Galax and the vote came out that it would be in Independence, more votes for Independence than Galax so that’s the reason the courthouse is there rather than Galax. And let’s see what else, and by having a restaurant, there was a jail nearby for Grayson county, was the jail there near the courthouse and my mother would; each year there would be a contract on who would feed the jailers so to speak and she would vote on that, not vote on it, but come up with the bid on how much they would charge the county to take care of the meals and my mom for a number of years would come up as the low bidder. So she got the and it would feed them two meals a day, two big meals a day one, I think in the morning about 8 o’clock and one in the afternoon, late afternoon about 4.

Matt: So, one of the other questions I want to ask is what would you describe as aspects of the people where you grew up, specifically the culture of the people of Independence or maybe of Galax or that area of Appalachia, what kind of culture do you think?

Jake: Well most of them had, especially in outlying areas, had farms. They would farm and I had, my grandfather, of course I don’t remember him, but my mother’s father, he had owned a big farm in a small place outlying in Independence that was called bridal creek, very small place and he was also sheriff from Grayson County for a number of years. My mother’s father and my daddy’s father was a lawyer in Independence and one of his daughters became a lawyer too. And she became the lawyer back in those days you study under your apprentice and you just go pass the bar. You didn’t necessarily have to go to college but you study the books and really know and so she passed the bar. Before that she was a school teacher and then she became a lawyer in later years. They had quite a practice too there in Independence and Grayson County so to speak.

Matt: If you were to meet someone would you be able to tell if they were from Appalachia or Independence just by talking to them?

Jake: no I don’t think so

Matt: You don’t think so?

Jake: mmhhmmm

Matt: And do you consider people from Independence or Appalachia to be culturally different from other people in the U.S., maybe someone from Independence compared to someone from New York City? Do you think that they would be different?

Jake: Well yea, from New York City, I think they would be.

Matt: How do you think they would be different?

Jake: Well they would still be educated, I mean there’s a lot of educated people that lived in Independence and like I’ve already said, doctors, lawyers and teachers and so on. But I guess just the type of living, New York versus, you know, Independence.

Matt: So you think the education, the quality of education that you had growing up was pretty good even compared to other places in the U.S.?

Jake: Yea

Matt: What role did your family play in your life when you grew up and how does that play now, like just family and the way Appalachian people think of family, do you think that’s different or just how you view family?

Jake: The part of, I think Appalachia is not all the same, it’s not all the same even though it might have touched Independence or other places from what I hear now, was much more poor than people in Independence I didn’t even ever think of myself as being poor but I very well could have been but anyway, yea I think educational wise a lot of them had good education.

Matt: Pretty much most of your family was in Independence?

Jake: Yes

Matt: Ok

Matt: And when you were growing up do you remember Appalachians being portrayed in books or movies, or T.V., obviously you didn’t have T.V. back then, but books do you remember them being portrayed in that at all?

Jake: No

Matt: Because a lot of people nowadays, you can watch T.V. or something and you can see some Appalachians maybe being portrayed as very poor in a negative way, did you experience that at all?

Jake: No not at all, not in that time and to me not at all, this didn’t come into play until, you know, later on much more years later after I left Independence that I even heard about that. But, I don’t think that it involved, but if it did it was more of the outskirts of Independence, that’s still Grayson County that I didn’t know about, you know, at that young age I just wasn’t aware of it.

Matt: And so maybe when you were, you said that you would go, when you were a kid you went to Roanoke sometimes?

Jake: We would come to Roanoke shopping, big places like Roanoke, Bristol and small places like Galax and Wytheville, much bigger than Independence

Matt: When you would go to those other places would you feel any different than the people there?

Jake: No

Matt: So they wouldn’t make fun of you or anything for being from Independence?

Jake: Oh no.

Matt: Ok. This is a good question, is there any kind of special food that you had growing up that is very specific to your area?

Jake: No

Matt: You don’t think so?

Jake: No, everything was just the same as I have now.

Matt: Really? Ok, specifically where you grew up was there any kind unspoken rules about what was respectful in the community, just like, respecting you parents, that kind of thing, like any kind of rules that were necessarily written down, but you knew to follow them?

Jake: Not anything different from what I have run across you know, as a parent myself and you know just be respectful to my parents and expect my children to do the same to me. Probably had a lot, I don’t want to say better, but possibly better than a lot of people because my mother had the restaurant and she had all types of food there you see I was used to eating steak and all that stuff so no problem with that.

Matt: Is there anything that you consider to be disrespectful in your community?

Jake: I can’t really think of anything particular.

Matt: Ok. So what about, you said your mom’s restaurant would serve the people that were in the jail. Would you, what did you think of them when they came into the restaurant?

Jake: Well they didn’t actually come into the restaurant

Matt: Oh, they would take the food…ok.

Jake: It was only like, it was within walking distance.

Matt: Ok.

Jake: The jail from the restaurant, like it was maybe probably less than 1/4 of a mile just guessing, you know. And they would have a tray of food and would walk it over to the jail which wasn’t that far.

Matt: What do you think most of the people were in the jail for?

Jake: They could be most anything. I guess they had to be really, like a murderer or something like that, may not be in that particular jail but they would be in there for I don’t know, things minor to that.

Matt: So did you have any opinion about those people that were in the jail?

Jake: No

Matt: Do you think anybody holds any misconceptions about Independence or Appalachia, maybe that everybody from Independence is poor, do you think anybody holds any kind of misconceptions like that?

Jake: Well they possibly could, you know things that come up but I don’t like to say it had to be the outskirts, but still the address is in Independence because it reached pretty far out but not the town of Independence so to speak, I don’t think so.

Matt: And you’ve never experienced people assuming those kinds of thing about you?

Jake: No

Matt: Ok. What do you think young people should know about how you grew up and where you grew up? What do you think is important for them to know about the culture and the way that you grew up?

Jake: Well to really know about the culture that not just Independence is like I’ve said before, it’s outreaching so all of Independence is not like that, it could have been out, you know and I would have not known it especially at that time. If they may know it know more of that than I did because there’s been so much publicized since I was there.

Matt: To outsiders how would you describe the place you grew up in to them, like the conditions that you grew up specifically the place? How would you describe it to someone who maybe has never been to Appalachia or to Independence?

Jake: Well it’s a quiet place. It’s very far back, it was very far back. I understand that now, I didn’t even really think about that part when I was growing up but it’s very far back in southwestern Virginia. And but anyways, it’s a nice place to live, it’s quiet and things like that but if you want more, being involved in a lot more things that’s not the place for you. But, if you like it there, if you like farming and things like that, that’s fine, but even living in Independence I did a little bit of farming on the side in the summertime. Because I belonged to the future farmers of America and I had projects in the summer time. I would raise potatoes, I would raise like at least an acre of potatoes. One year planted all potatoes and that was my project and I would dig those potatoes and sold them, that sort of thing. And then I also actually had a cow and it was mine and I would milk the cow twice a day and daily sold the milk, put it in a milk container and they would come by and pick it up so that’s how a made a little money on the side myself.

Matt: Would you say that there’s anything unique about the language that you speak, we all speak English, but different areas of the country have slight accents or something?

Jake: I didn’t think anything about it until I did leave home and then I did you know “where are you from” sort of thing but that has stuck with me a lot, really. And I haven’t been able to change some of it, I mean after all these year I’ve lived here 60 years in the Roanoke area so sometimes somebody will say something, so I think just barely maybe just some words that have stayed on with me that the dialect may be a bit different.

Matt: So people will talk to you and maybe they’ll notice?

Jake: Yea they might pick up something, yea and I say oh gosh, I still sound like that. But most of the time they’ll say, well no or whatever but anyway.

Matt: Ok I think that’s pretty much it. Thank you for doing the interview with me.

Jake: You’re welcome. You found out some things you didn’t know.

 

 

Fictional Appalachian Women and Their Real – Life Counterparts

 

ERH-303WX

Date Due: 12/10/16

Date Sub.: 12/10/16

Research Essay II

Help Received: Cited Sources, peer review, professor

Matthew Kenkel

 

Throughout the course of Cultural Rhetorics, varying depictions of Appalachian women have been presented in works of literature. Some of the depictions challenge preconceived notions that an individual could have. Other depictions of Appalachian women fit stereotypes that an individual could have. But, all of the depictions of Appalachian women have had one thing in common. No matter if they challenge a reader’s preconceived notions or fit a particular stereotype, the depictions of Appalachian women present in many works of literature are unable to fully describe the complexity of the experiences that the women had to endure and the effect that they had on Appalachian culture. Of the several different depictions of Appalachian women, the depictions of women organizing labor movements, conducting powerful militancy, and involved in literary work did exist in real life, but are depicted in ways that do not cover the true scope of the women’s experience and effect on Appalachian culture.

In The Kentucky Cycle, following the beginning of the strike against the mine, Tommy Jackson is recognized as one of the strike leaders. But, Tommy ends up betraying the workers on strike. After the betrayal, the miners see no point in continuing the strike and give up. What follows is a scene where the miners on strike are rallied and lead by Mary Anne Rowen, Tommy Jackson’s wife. Mary Anne’s actions are described by another character, Joshua, who says, “And my mama rolled the rock off their hearts and pulled them back into life and we marched, all the women and me, banging pots and pans and singing songs until the men, shamefaced, joined us.” (Schenkkan 246).  This part of the scene shows Mary Anne leading the union movement back to life, rallying the men who have already quit. Not only that, but as the scene goes on, Mary Anne’s revived union movement is successful. There were women like Mary Anne that existed outside the simplistic confines of a fictional story. One example is Ella May (Williams 276). Not only was Ella May a single mother of seven children, but also a musician (Williams 276). During a strike in April 1929, May used her musical skills to organize and gain leadership positions within the textile strike (Williams 276). On the surface, if one compares Ella May to Mary Anne of The Kentucky Cycle, similarities can be drawn. Mary Anne helped to organize a labor movement, much like Ella May did. But, if one analyzes the lasting impact of Ella May and Mary Anne, there are different results. Nowhere in The Kentucky Cycle is the effect of Mary Anne’s actions on culture recognized. While in real life, Ella May defied the limits on women-like conduct that were present in Appalachia (Williams 276). She did this all the while promoting traditional Appalachian culture through music (Williams 276). Therefore, even though a character like Mary Anne can challenge reader’s preconceived notions about how women are supposed to conduct themselves, it does not provide evidence or context of the true effect on Appalachian culture by the real women like Ella May. This effect is seen in Appalachian women like Zilphia Horton. Horton used the same Appalachian folk songs that were taught by Ella May in order to help organize the civil rights movement in Appalachia between 1960 and 1965 (Carawan 92). One women described Horton’s work at the Highlander Folk School in Monteagle, Tennessee as, “we were based at Highlander for those years and could build on what had been learned there during the Labor Movement – that singing could be a strong unifying force in struggle” (Carawan 91, 92).

In The Unquiet Earth, a strike is brought to the point where the miners are forced to work at gunpoint. In the midst of that controversy, the wives of the miners take action against the company that owns the mine. The scene where the wives attack the company’s coal truck drivers is described by the author as, “they are banging on the truck with their baseball bats, with their fists…the women start to whip him…then they haul him up like a sack of flower and dump him in the ditch.” (Giardina 145, 146) The abovementioned scene is brutal and militant. It is militant for a cause that is justified in the book. Similar to that scene, Appalachian women took part in militancy against coal companies in real life. In October of 1973, women from a Brookside, Kentucky coal camp were able to shut down a mine owned by Duke Power Company (Maggard 228). The women formed what was known as the Brookside Women’s Club (Maggard 228). One woman that was part of the club described her dramatic experience on the picket line while laying down in the road to stop strike breakers from entering the mine, “[I was] terrified! I was scared to death. We knew that if those cars started coming through we had to stop them” (Maggard 246). Again, like the example from The Kentucky Cycle and Ella May, the miner’s wives depicted in The Unquiet Earth and the real life example of the Brookside Women’s Club seem similar. Both depict women as unifying to carry out powerful labor militancy. But, The Unquiet Earth does not possess the full range of the effect and experience that the women involved in labor militancy had. Therefore, The Unquiet Earth can lead readers to believe a depiction that is extremely simplistic. For example, the Brookside Women’s Club had to endure severe discrimination and violence during and after taking their part in the picketing against the mine (Maggard 247).  Furthermore, the women that participated in the Brookside strike came from background such as homemakers, who were dependent on wages earned from male coal miners and suffered economic consequences for shutting down the mine (Maggard 246). But, in the end, the Brookside women demonstrated that they were not just “homemakers”. They showed that Appalachian women could be strong militants if necessary.

Near the end of The Unquiet Earth, Rachel’s daughter Jackie has grown up and received a degree in journalism. Jackie, having grown up in an Appalachian mining town, represents a woman who is able to “breakout” of Appalachia and begin her work as a press secretary for a West Virginian congressman. She eventually returns to Appalachia to become an editor for a local newspaper. As a woman who was born and raised in Appalachia, an Appalachian woman who is self-supporting, and by being a woman writer from Appalachia, Jackie breaks several stereotypes. There are many real life examples of Appalachian women like Jackie from The Unquiet Earth. Helen Matthews Lewis is an example. Lewis grew up in Appalachia and was able to “breakout” of Appalachia much like Jackie did. Also like Jackie, Lewis was a journalist, who wrote about Appalachian studies. However, Jackie’s character does not show any of the struggles that Appalachian woman-writers had to go through. Helen Lewis was described as a woman who, “accepted the public arena and paid a heavy price for [her] vision of a just and humane world” (Fisher 2). Lewis fought through harsh criticisms for being an Appalachian woman writer and was still able to, “reframe for a new generation of scholars and activists the most basic assumptions about Appalachian culture, community, and inequality” (Fisher 4). Lewis’s writings left a major impact on Appalachian culture because of the barriers she broke and what she wrote about. Working hand in hand with feminist philosophy, Lewis helped to create an environment where, “rural and poor women were emerging as leaders of the most creative and progressive community-development efforts” (Fisher 6).

Many works of literature that depict Appalachian women depict them in what is often a simplistic manner. Even the depictions that could be considered realistic, similar to those in The Kentucky Cycle or The Unquiet Earth, are unable to demonstrate the full struggles and cultural impact women had on Appalachia. This argument did not seek to directly critique the works of literature themselves. Instead, this argument sought to point out that it is crucial for readers to keep in mind the fictional character’s real life counter parts because they worked in ways that the fictional characters, while realistic, are unable to fully describe.

 

Reflection

Throughout my research for this essay I challenged myself with the topic I picked. I believe that it is difficult for a male to write about how women are depicted and about the accomplishments of real life women. I say it is difficult for a male, because I am coming from a completely different perspective. I have never known the actual struggles associated with being a woman. So, I have to work almost twice as hard to ensure that I do my topic justice. So, I learned how to operate outside of my own “comfort zone”. Also, I learned that I was guilty of taking the Appalachian women I had read about in The Unquiet Earth and The Kentucky Cycle for face value. I did not know the full scope of how the women characters in those books had real life counterparts who accomplished a lot. Through my research on those women, I found out the significant impact that they had on Appalachia’s culture. I learned about how they broke cultural norms and boundaries while inspiring other Appalachian women to do the same.

 

Bibliography

Ballard, Sandra L., and Patricia L. Hudson, editors. Listen Here: Women Writing in Appalachia. University Press of Kentucky, 2003, www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt2jcf21.

Carawan, Candie. “Candie Carawan: (December 27, 1939– ).” Listen Here: Women Writing in Appalachia, Edited by Sandra L. Ballard and Patricia L. Hudson, University Press of Kentucky, 2003, pp. 89–94, www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt2jcf21.20.

Fisher, Stephen L., and Helen M. Lewis. “Introduction.” Helen Matthews Lewis: Living Social Justice in Appalachia, Edited by Patricia D. Beaver and Judith Jennings, University Press of Kentucky, 2012, pp. 1–11, www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt2jcrhb.5.

Giardina, Denise. The Unquiet Earth. Ballantine Books, 1992.

Lewis, Helen M, Patricia D. Beaver, and Judith Jennings. Helen Matthews Lewis: Living Social Justice in Appalachia. Lexington, Ky: University Press of Kentucky, 2012. Internet resource.

Maggard, Sally Ward, and Ronald D Eller. “Coalfield Women Making History.” Back Talk from Appalachia: Confronting Stereotypes, Edited by Dwight B. Billings et al., University Press of Kentucky, 1999, pp. 228–250, www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt2jcp5m.21.

Schenkkan, Robert. The Kentucky Cycle. Grove Press, 1993.

Williams, John. Appalachia: A History. The University of North Carolina Press, 2002.